‘I draw inspiration from what I observe’:
A Conversation with Veronique Tadjo
Nibir K. Ghosh
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Dr. Véronique
Tadjo is a writer, artist and professor of French and Francophone
Literature. Born in France and raised in Côte d’Ivoire (Ivory Coast), she did
most of her studies in Abidjan before earning a doctorate in Black American
Literature and Civilization at the Sorbonne, Paris IV. In 1983, she went to
Howard University in Washington, D.C. on a Fulbright research scholarship.
Writing in multiple genres in both French and English, she has distinguished
herself in whatever she has turned her inspiration to. Her internationally
acclaimed publications include novels and poetry collections entitled Queen
Pokou, As the Crow Flies, The Shadow of Imana, The Blind Kingdom, Latérite/Red
Earth, besides books for young people: The
Lucky Grain of Corn, Talking Drums, Lord of the Dance among others. Her
work has been translated in many languages. She is the recipient of numerous awards like the Los Angeles Times Book Award for
Fiction, the Commandeur des Arts et des lettres medal by the
French ministry of Culture, Le Prix d’Excellence du
président de la République de Côte d’Ivoire, Writing residency at The Rockefeller Bellagio Centre
in Italy, Carnegie Sandwich
Grant from the University of the Witwatersrand Trans-formation program, the
Iowa International Writing Program residency in Iowa, USA, Writer in residence and Equity
Scholar, Carnegie Transformation Grant at the Writing Centre, University of the
Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa and Le Grand Prix Littéraire
d’Afrique Noire in Paris, France. Currently, she is Visiting
Professor at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg (South Africa)
and shares
her time between London and Abidjan.
Véronique Tadjo’s works
amply display the spirit behind Tennyson’s poem wherein Ulysses says, “I am a part of all that I have met.” Widely travelled,
she admits she has “an aversion to telling a story in a linear form,”
probably reminding one of T. S. Eliot’s line, “I must borrow every
changing shape/ To find expression.” The immensity of the power
of her writing can be gauged from the following lines taken from two of her
poems that were featured in A World Assembly of Poets, published by Re-Markings
as a special number in November 2017 and guest-edited by Dr. Tijan M. Sallah:
What burden do you bear
In this foul world
Heavier than the city
Dying of its wounds?
What power
Links you to this frigid earth
That births twins
Only to separate them?
That raises buildings
Only to crush you
Under tons of cement
And steaming asphalt? (RED
EARTH/LATERITE).
Bound by strong affinity
for the “wretched of the Earth,” the writer in her asserts with conviction:
In truth, loneliness has no
name, since it hides in the recesses of your body. It hides following the path
of your veins, the curve of your spine and the dense swamp of your waking
spirit. Interrogate the cracked mirror, the fragments of your soul that tell
you the truth. Interrogate the fracture, the dispersion. Interrogate,
interrogate to the point of exhaustion” (HALF-WAY/À MI CHEMIN).
In this conversation, the
author spares no effort to discuss various facets of her life and work with
simplicity and frankness that are the hallmarks of her personality.
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Ghosh: You combine within you
multi-dimensional attributes of a novelist, poet,
author of books for young people, illustrator and painter. How do you manage to
strike a balance among so many artistic engagements?
Tadjo: For me it is equivalent to speaking different
languages or simply using various modes of expression. I lost a lot of time
thinking that when you build a career, whatever the field, you must concentrate
on only one thing. But at the end of the day, I realized that what mattered to
me was being in a creative process. And this can take different forms. Most of
the time, the writing process takes precedence but I also like to explore other
avenues. For example, I believe that I am a better writer when I paint.
Ghosh: When did you discover your urge and flair for writing? What were the
influences that shaped your sensibilities as a writer? Do you remember your
first composition?
Tadjo: Poetry was my first calling. I owe a lot to the Négritude
movement. I read Léopold Sédar Senghor, Birago Diop, Aimé Césaire, Léon-Gontran
Damas. They opened my eyes and my heart to what was happening around me. I was
also touched by French poets like Arthur Rimbaud, Jacques Prévert and Charles Beaudelaire. At a later stage, I
discovered Raymond Carver and Sylvia Plath as well as Japanese Haikus. I would
write poems on bits of paper dotted all around the house. Then I used notebooks
and I never stopped writing. My first published collection of poems, Laterite (1983) was conceived after I
crossed the Sahara desert and ended my trip in the north of Côte d’Ivoire where
I taught English in a school for three years. I fell in love with the region
and the Senoufo people.
Ghosh: What academic training went into the shaping of your career as a
writer? What encouragement did you receive from your parents?
Tadjo: I took a BA (licence) at the English department of
the National university of Abidjan. Then I went on to the Sorbonne to further
my studies in African American Literature and Civilization. I also took African
Literature as a second degree. Although I had started writing when I was young,
I really developed my skills when I had already left home. Right from the
beginning my parents were very supportive. It gave me a lot of confidence to
choose two careers: academic and literary.
Ghosh: Like Tennyson’s Ulysses, it appears you “cannot rest from travel.”
Considering the many countries you have straddled in your academic and creative
career, how have such frequent sojourns impacted your writing?
Tadjo: I am the product of travel. My parents met when my
father left Côte d’Ivoire to further his studies in Economics and Law in
France. My mother left her small hometown in Bourgogne to study Arts in Paris.
Thereafter, my life was again defined by travelling as we would spend many
holidays going back and forth between Côte d’Ivoire and France. I married a
journalist and the travelling intensified even more. I can almost put a little
flag on each of my novels as the various countries where I have lived have had
an impact on my writing. I draw inspiration from what I observe, feel and
learn. Travelling helps me to see the world in its complexity.
Ghosh: W. E. B. Dubois had declared way back in 1903 that "the problem
of the twentieth century is the problem of the color line.” A century and
twenty years later, what is your perception of the “color line” that Dubois
referred to? From the Harlem Renaissance and the Civil Rights’ movement to the
Black Lives Matter initiative, what changes, if any, do you visualize?
Tadjo: I am saddened by the fact that the problem of the “color
line” is still so prevalent today. One would have thought that a lot had
changed since the Civil Rights movement and all the struggles against
discrimination but unfortunately, Black Lives Matter protests have
demonstrated that there is still more that needs to be done. Police brutality
is a symptom of institutional racism.
Yet the paradox is that on November 4, 2008, Barack Obama became the first
African American to be elected President of the United States. And there are many more high profile Black and African personalities
who have risen to the fore. However, an exception is not the rule. You can’t
take any gain for granted. The fight for justice and equal opportunities for
all has never been more relevant.
Ghosh: What occasioned your
interest in Black American Literature and Civilization as the subject of your
doctorate degree? Who are your favorite
African American male/female authors?
Tadjo: The subject of my doctorate thesis was: “The process of
acculturation of Black Americans through slavery.” I was interested in looking
at the change that occurred in African slaves when they arrived in the
plantations. They first had to shed their former cultural identity before they
were able to acquire a new and hybrid one at first. Through adversity, they
overcame many obstacles to survive and find their rightful place in American
society. Cultural syncretism is a fascinating phenomenon that comes from the clash
of cultures. It is the fusion of different beliefs and practices to create a
new culture. It is something that occurs
everywhere in the world. So I thought that looking at Black Americans would
help me better understand the changes taking place on the continent as through
the violence of colonization, Africans have had to abandon many of their
traditions to adopt a more “modern” way of life. It is undeniable that Black
Americans have influenced the world with their achievements on many fronts; literature,
the arts, politics and theoretical thinking. Toni Morrison is at the top of my
list with James Baldwin and many other authors.
Ghosh: You worked on
“The Black Church and Black Theology” for your Fulbright project at Howard
University, Washington, D.C. What initiated you into this particular area of
research? What were your primary findings?
Tadjo: I was interested in Black theology and its powerful
message of change. The Black Church in America has been instrumental in the
birth of the Civil Rights movement. At its heart is the idea of social justice
and its transformative force. God is on the side of the Oppressed. It is a
message of resistance and hope as opposed to the usual perception of religion
as “the opium of the people.”
Ghosh: You have been the recipient of the prestigious Fulbright
scholarship. Please narrate your experiences as a Fulbright
scholar. To what extent were you able to meet Senator Fulbright’s ideal of
“humanizing international relations and turning nations into people” through
the scholarships he initiated? Does the spirit of the Fulbright program enter
somewhere in your writings?
Tadjo: Being a Fulbright scholar was very important for me
because it gave me the opportunity to study at Howard University and to immerse
myself in Black American civilization. I lived with a Black American family in
Washington, D.C. and learnt a lot. I was also able to consult key documents in
the many libraries on campus. I had a research director at the Divinity School.
In two of my novels (As the Crow Flies and The Blind Kingdom) you
can find markers of my time during the Fulbright scholarship period. Not
directly but definitively linked to it.
Ghosh:
What similarities and/or differences do you find in your views of African
American and Francophone African writers?
Tadjo: I rarely compare because American and Francophone
writers operate in very different linguistic and cultural spheres. I am glad
that there are more and more translations from English into French and vice
versa. We have common themes of course. They mainly centre on questions of
oppression and identity. Moreover, we share the feeling of black consciousness.
Ghosh: Two of your novels – The
Shadow of Imana (2000) and In the Company of Men (2017) – have for
their subject matter two major crises on the African continent. What motivated
you to undertake a creative journey to fathom apocalyptic realities like the
genocide of the Tutsis in Rwanda and the recurring outbreak of the Ebola
epidemic? Can these two works be called political novels?
Tadjo: There are lots of events happening in the world, some
good, and some bad. We live in a world that is in permanent crisis and within
this situation; Africa has its own challenges. When a specific issue occurs on
the continent, I want to understand the why and how. As I am emotionally
involved (rather than just intellectually involved), it pushes me towards a
creative project. For me, writing is an exploration of pain and a desire to
exorcise it. As an author, I feel a responsibility to record key moments in our
history. It is a privilege to be able to write and to be published. I do not
self-censor myself. It is not because I have talked about the genocide in
Rwanda that I will not speak about environmental degradation and the emergence
of the Ebola epidemic. Yes, you could say that both The Shadow of Imana and In
the Company of Men are political novels. However, I would prefer to qualify
them as “Committed literature” or what is called “Littérature engagée” in
French.
Ghosh: The Rwanda genocide of
1994, termed by the BBC as “100 days of slaughter,” saw the extermination of
800,000 people from the minority Tutsi community by the demographically
dominant Hutus. How did you manage to capture the graphic details of the grim
tragedy in The Shadow of Imana: “These dead are screaming still. The
chaos remains palpable. The events are too recent. This is not a memorial but
death laid bare, exposed in all its rawness. … The bones of the skeleton-corpse
are disintegrating before our very eyes. The stench infects our nostrils and
settles inside our lungs, contaminates our flesh, lingers in our bodies and our
minds"?
Tadjo: I wrote The Shadow
of Imana as part of a project called “Rwanda, writing as a duty to memory”
that took place in 1998. It was set up by Fest’Africa, a festival of African
literatures and cultures based in Lille, France and founded by Nocky Djedanoum
(Tchad) and Maïmouna Coulibaly (Côte d’Ivoire). The project involved a dozen
African writers from different countries. We went together to Kigali to observe
life in post genocide Rwanda. Each one of us wrote a book from our experience.
Being physically present in Rwanda and having the opportunity to talk to
survivors helped us to capture some of the graphic details. It was essential
for me to be among Rwandese. You must also take into account that the genocide
took place in 1994 and our trip to Rwanda took place four years later. The
country was still reeling from the tragedy; a lot of things were still raw and
unprocessed. We wanted to tell it as we saw it.
Ghosh: You appear to mix, what
T. S. Eliot would call, “memory and desire” when you lyrically say in The
Shadow of Imana: “May my eyes see, may my ears hear, may my mouth speak. I
am not afraid of knowing. But may my mind never lose sight of what must grow
with us: hope and respect for life." What are the sources of your “hope
and respect for life” in a world ruled by tyrants, despots and power-hungry
fundamentalists? What is the significance of the presiding tribal deity “Imana”
in the title of the novel?
Tadjo: We cannot give up. Wanting a better world may sound like
a hopeless quest but it is the only one worth fighting for. I am a writer so
that’s what I do. Silence is no option. The respect for life is part of the survival
of humanity; from the fight against violence and extremism to the preservation
of the Earth and the need to reverse the destructive effects of climate change.
Each gene-ration has its part to play. “Imana” is the name of God in
Kinyarwanda. Therefore, the title refers to the erasure of traditional
spirituality that took place during the various periods of colonization from Germany
and Belgium followed by France’s involvement in its affairs. It created a
vacuum that was filled by a superficial understanding of Christianity. The
breakdown of ancient cultural references may have caused a trauma of unknown
proportion.
Ghosh: You published your
epoch-making novel, In the Company of Men, in 2017. What inspired you to
write about the Ebola epidemic that originated in 1976 near the Ebola river in
Congo and continued to make its presence felt with its outspread becoming more
severe in 2014 with over eleven thousand people losing their lives in Guinea,
Liberia, and Sierra Leone?
Tadjo: When we talk about Ebola today, it is usually in
reference to the 2014 Ebola epidemic in West Africa. This is because it was by
far the deadliest. It also received intense media coverage. The previous
epidemics were minor in comparison and therefore engendered little attention
from the world. Small villages being stricken by the disease did not make news.
Diseases like malaria among others did not make news either, until recently (as
they are starting to cross borders). My aim was to take the 2014 Ebola epidemic
as a defining moment. It showed Africa and the world the terrible state of our
health systems and the urgent need to reform them. A catastrophe remains a catastrophe
if it is not followed by qualitative change. The book is a call for such a
change made more urgent because of environmental degradation.
Ghosh: Did you have to undertake
extensive research into various manifestations of the cause-effect
relationship pertaining to the Ebola crisis? How did you go about writing the
novel?
Tadjo: I would say that from
2014 when the Ebola epidemic became a prime concern, all the way up to the
writing of the book I was busy gathering information. And the more I researched
the subject, the more it strengthened my resolve to continue with my project. I
learnt that there had been at least ten previous Ebola epidemics that occurred
in the Democratic Republic of Congo where the virus was first identified and
that there were different types of Ebola viruses known to be present in Sudan,
Uganda, Côte d’Ivoire, and even Asia with various degrees of lethality. Very
recently, an outbreak was declared on 20 September 2022 in the Western Region
and Central Region of Uganda. It is Uganda's fifth Ebola outbreak. The problem is not over.
Being
an academic helped me tremendously (in terms of the methodology to adopt) when
doing the research because the same skills can be applied to creative writing.
When producing an academic article, it is said that you have to withdraw behind
“neutrality” and stay on the ‘rational’ path. On the other hand, when you
write creatively, you tend to put the emphasis on emotional knowledge. You are
appealing to the readers’ sense of identification with the characters because
you want to break the cycle of indifference. To a certain extent, this
multidimensional form opens up new possibilities.
Ghosh: There is a 1997 film In
the Company of Men on a totally different theme. Is it a mere
coincidence?
Tadjo: Yes, there is absolutely no link with this film. The
title of my book refers to a change of gaze. Non-humans and nature are “in the
company of humans” because they share the same territorial space, the Earth.
Ghosh: Do you have any plans of
rendering into fiction how the COVID-19 pandemic changed the world like never
before? If yes, what lessons, according to you, would you like to share with
your readers?
Tadjo: I am sure that the COVID-19 pandemic will feature in my
writing. I have already written several short pieces of the subject. It has
deeply affected every one of us. It was devastating in Latin America, India and
Brazil for example. But the pandemic has not been experienced with the same
intensity all around the world. What shocked me was the injustice in the access
to treatment. Vaccine nationalism was a low moment for humanity as too many
Western countries kept more vaccines than they needed. I think that we will
talk about the pandemic for a long time to come, looking at its various
ramifications. Viruses know no borders, race, faith or political affiliation.
As a human species, we will keep the world safe only through solidarity.
Ghosh: Is your remark, “I follow
the African tradition of storytelling which gives me a great freedom of
interpretation of our myths and legends. I am interested in preserving the
richness of our cultural heritage for the generations to come,” an extension of
the legacy of writers like Chinua Achebe? Also, how did you get to acquire
significant insights into the African oral tradition with its myths and
legends?
Tadjo: I was raised in Côte d’Ivoire. I grew up with oral
traditions which have played an important part in the fabric of society. They
are very resilient and are still alive in people’s imaginary landscape even
though we have lost so much. I am fascinated by myths and legends. Many people
tend to think that they are irrelevant in today’s world. I tend to disagree; I
think that they continue to shape our vision of the world and our place in it. Writers
like Chinua Achebe knew their power and his writing is an exploration of the
encounter between tradition and modernity. On the francophone side, the great
Malian writer and historian, Amadou Hampâté Bâ has had a strong influence on my
work.
Ghosh: You mention that you
chose English as your scholarly profession with French as your creative
profession. What led you to such a decision? Which language do you use
frequently while communicating with your family and friends in Côte d'Ivoire?
Tadjo: Having lived in several Anglophone countries and in
particular in South Africa where I headed the French and Francophone department
for seven years as a professor at the university of the Witwatersrand in
Johannesburg, English has imposed itself as an academic language for me.
Emotionally, I am attached to French. It is my main creative medium, although I
do also write creatively in English. In Côte d’Ivoire, we have our own French
which has been influenced by the various local languages spoken in the country
(a kind of creole). We immediately switch to it when we are among family and
friends.
Ghosh: What motivated you to
take up painting? You have designated your art work as "magic
realism." Do you find this technique of mixing myth, magic and memories
useful in unravelling the mysteries of contemporary realities? Is Gabriel
Garcia Marquez an influence?
Tadjo: My mother was a painter and she became a sculptor towards
the end of her life. She gave me the passion for visual art. I started with
illustration because I was abroad and wanted pictures to go with my books for
young people. I then ventured into painting on canvas. She encouraged me to
find my “voice”. She used to say, “Just do it, go ahead.” I have adopted the
literary term coined by Gabriel Garcia Marquez because it is the closest to
what I try to do visually. I start painting something that is recognizable, and
then I distance myself from it in order to enter another realm.
Ghosh: How would you describe
your experiences as a professor of Literature at various universities? In terms
of teaching and learning methods how would you compare teaching in Africa with
that in the USA?
Tadjo: There is a big discrepancy between Western and African
universities in terms of academic resources. Even in South Africa where you
find some of the best universities on the continent, funds are limited and
cannot cover the great educational needs of a country coming out of the
oppression of the Apartheid regime. In West Africa, most educational systems
would benefit from reforms. Education needs to become again “the priority of
priorities” as it was thought at independence. There is a great desire to learn
and a lot of talent.
Ghosh: What response did the
anthology Talking Drums: A Selection of Poems from Africa south of
the Sahara evoke from African as well as Western audiences? Do the diverse
new voices in the collection signal a bright future of poetry from the said
region?
Tadjo: I conceived the anthology as an initiation to African
poetry. It starts with traditional poems and moves to contemporary ones. My
intention was to tell the story of the continent through poetry. It was very
well received. Poetry is alive and well on the continent. There are many
diverse voices. The Spoken Word movement for example has taken poetry into the
open again thanks to an oral art that is based on performance.
Ghosh: You have made an
impressive mark in the domain of Children’s literature. What ideas and
approaches do you bring into play when you are writing for children? Who would
you consider a role model in writing stories for children?
Tadjo: Today, children living in cities do not have access
to stories easily. I
started writing albums with pictures because I wanted to bring my contribution
to the development of literature for young people in Côte d’Ivoire. In the 80’s
in collaboration with my publisher we started several collections. I enjoy
writing for different age groups. When I wrote my book on Nelson Mandela, No
to Apartheid! it was to celebrate the life of an icon of the liberation, to
keep his memory alive. I am attracted by stories from all over the world and by
traditional storytelling.
Ghosh: In recent parlance what
is your take as a writer on the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
Tadjo: I am a believer in non-violence as a citizen and as a
writer. For me the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the on-going conflict that
followed has had a profound negative impact on the world. We see an escalation
of violence with a call for more and more weapons and a terrifying threat of
nuclear disaster. I would have wanted more emphasis on negotiation and
diplomacy. This is the very opposite of weakness. As we stand now, the
possibility of a World War III has become less remote. We need peace to come
back quickly. We are living in dangerous times. I wonder what Mahatma Gandhi,
Martin Luther King, Jr. or Nelson Mandela would have made of our dire
situation.
Ghosh: In the context of
protests in Iran over the death of Mahsa Amini in police custody, what is your
message to young women writers across nations and cultures?
Tadjo: The death of Mahsa Amini on 16 September 2022 in police
custody, after she was arrested by morality police officers for allegedly
wearing her hijab too loosely, is absolutely incomprehensible.
It is absurd and it shows the level of oppression and the denial of fundamental
human dignity suffered by Iranian women living under the Islamic republic.
The protests that continue to spread in spite of the severe repression are
about ending religious extre-mism. They have grown into a broad movement
against the theocracy that has ruled Iran since the 1979 revolution. What we
must retain from this is that fighting for your rights is an on-going battle
that requires collective consciousness and action.
Ghosh: Many thanks Dr. Tadjo for
this engagingly enlightening conversation.
·
Dr. Nibir K. Ghosh is UGC Emeritus Professor, Agra College,
Agra. A Senior Fulbright Fellow at the University of Washington, Seattle, USA
during 2003-04), he has authored/edited 15 widely acclaimed books. He has
interviewed till date 35 celebrity writers, statesmen, historians and poets
from around the world that have been published in two collections entitled Multicultural
America: Conversations with Contemporary Authors (2005) and Republic of
Words: Conversations with Creative Minds from Around the Globe (2021).
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